Nothing personal, but, IMHO, THIS IS A CROCK!!

[mike82346]

First, let me remind Kitty and the Powers That Be that there are several people who participate here and are also good customers of KW who are more than qualified and capable of "Flashing" phones to Page Plus or any other appropriate carrier. Those same people have been actively DISCOURAGED from offering "Flashed" phones for sale and been hand slapped when they did. Now, suddenly, that policy has changed with the introduction of a new "PARTNER" of Kitty Wireless. Well, what about us "Partners" who send money to KW every month on multiple lines and encourage our friends and family to become "partners" too. What is it that the new "PARTNER" has that us little "Partners" could not have offered to the KW community? Why were we not even asked? Yes, I am P!$$ed and my feelings are hurt. Wah....Wah....Wah....

OK, now I feel better for having said that but it really isn't the biggest issue. The real issue for me is that these "Phone Flashing" outfits are generally overpriced and take advantage of the ignorance of cell phone users. They use every trick they can to extract additional money from your pocket by throwing around Techno-Babble and implying that you are too stupid to understand any of this so just give us your credit card number and we will take care of you. Think Best Buy's GEEK SQUAD and you get the general idea where these guys are coming from.

There is no Black Art or Techno Secrets involved in "Flashing" a phone. In fact, now days there is no real "Flashing" of anything involved. Just a few settings are modified and a file installed (usually a new PRL file). This can all be done with software freely available on the Internet or you can spend $100 and get some specialized software to do it. The instructions on how to do it are also freely available on the internet. Many of the "Flashing" Companies started their businesses using the informational contributions of others and are basically SELLING what the original contributor gave freely to just be helpful to fellow geeks.

While I truly respect Kitty Wireless for the way they have handled their business, I am offended that they have sullied their good name and reputation by getting into bed with potential Charlatans (again, think "GEEK SQUAD").

Now, does this mean I can now sell my "Flashed" phones on Kitty Wireless or is the new "PARTNER" the only one qualified? My Sprint, US Cellular, Alltel, et all, phones would be offered at the market price of the phone (no mark up for "Flashing") and would have a Money Back Guarantee. In fact, it never occurred to me to mark up the price because I flashed the phone. I'd feel like I was taking advantage of people because "Flashing" is so easy to do. So, can I offer "Flashed" phones here? Kitty? MODS? Anyone?

Mike

[tmason68]

Dude, they are a legit company. If they mess up the phone, they deal with the fallout. Its that simple. No offense but you (and I) are JAG. Just A Guy.

[Kitty]

Mike,

First of all, we have never had a policy against selling flashed phones here. Every phone is handled on a case by case basis. If it's a legitimate seller, with a legitimate phone that they are advertising correctly and honestly, we have neer had a problem with phones being sold here, as long as there is 100% honesty right up front about it, and the customer is FULLY aware of the situation/history with the device.

Second, RemoteSquad.com is not selling phones that are pre-flashed. They help people flash the phones they already have so that they can be used on Page Plus. Big difference. They are not here peddling flashed phones from other network, they are merely offering technical assistance & services to get phones that customers already own flashed to work on Page Plus. That's all.

Yes, you are right, there are many people here who are fully capable of flashing phones and such, but do you do it as your business, professionally, for your living, or is it just a hobby? That's the difference. Your flashing, or other people's flashing, is just as good, I'm sure, as the flashing provided by other providers. If you have a service, that you would like to offer to our customers here, please run it by me and let's talk about it, and we'll see what we can do. You have not yet, as far as I know, approached us about offering anything to the community as a whole. However, let me be very honest: I do not feel comfortable formally recommending and sending our customers to anyone who does not do it professionally, for a business, as their livelihood. Hobbies are great, but customers need guarantees & businesses that will stand behind their services & products.

I have no problem with the services that Best Buy's Geek Squad offer. Heck, I used them to come in and setup my home entertainment system. Yes, they charged a fee, but they came in, did it all, showed me how it worked, and left. And I didn't even have to break a sweat. Nor do I have any problem with the services that RemoteSquad.com offers. They provide a service, for a fee, and a guarantee behind it. And their service is much needed. There are many, many customers who do not have the technical know-how to do their own flashing, and therefore DO need assistance and guidance in getting it accomplished. We get no less than 20-30 inquiries per week from people asking about how to flash devices, etc. I have tried to flash many phones, on my own, myself, and I'm pretty darn geeky, and quite often I have failed for one reason or another. *I* personally would pay for, and use, the services of a flashing service, to save me time and aggravation.

We have not sullied our good name. We have made the business choice to stay OUT of the phone flashing market. We were approached by RemoteSquad.com, evaluated their services & products, participated in discussions with their owners and decided this would be a good thing to recommend for our customers, who look to us to find solutions for their needs (that we cannot meet.) It is mutually beneficial to us, and to them. They do not wish to get into our part of the business, and we do not wish to get into their part of the business.

You can offer phones for sale here, Mike, as you always have, as long as you are 100% honest about them, which you always have been. The phones you've sold here have been awesome! If they were NOT Verizon phones, and they were flashed to work on Page Plus, and if you are willing to personally guarantee the ones you sell, which you always have been, I have no problem with that. There has never been a flat out policy stopping the sale of "flashed devices" on our forums - it has always been a case by case basis.

I'm very sorry that you are upset. The services that RemoteSquad.com sells are valid, needed, and in much demand, we get inquiries about phone flashing all the time. They are not selling pre-flashed devices here to people. They are merely helping people flash the devices they already own, so that they can be used on Page Plus. I respect that service, know there is a need for it, and we do intend on allowing them to proceed with helping our community.

As far as I can remember, you have never approached me about offering a service to our community here, else we would have had discussions about it. If you want to propose something, and run it past me, I'd be happy to consider it. We're always looking for good ways to help our community meet their goals, if we cannot take care of it for them.

Thanks for your understanding.

Kitty

[RCEagles]

I think this remote flashing will be great for kitty and for page plus too.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[mike82346]

Thank you, Kitty, for your thoughtful response. I suppose my outrage was more because by affiliating KW with this type business, you are legitimizing AND steering your customers towards a type of business that in many cases takes advantage of people's ignorance and occasionally operate on the fringes of the law (phone cloning, esn repair, etc.). I am in no way accusing RS of anything illegal. All I am saying is, RemoteSquad is charging $35+ for "Flashing" a Sprint phone for "Talk and Text only". What this entails is installing a PagePlus PRl file on the phone and then use OTA programming to complete the setup. It takes 1 minute to install the file and Verizon's network does the rest! Most of the newer phones will install a new PRL file from the MicroSD card in the phone. All you need to do is download the PRL to the MicroSD and "Flash" your phone in the comfort of your recliner. Is it still worth $35? Only the Buyer can make that decision but they can only make the decision if given all the facts. "PHONE FLASHERS" are very good at Techno-Babble and obfuscation which hides the facts.

OK. I am through pontificating about this and will let it go :) Thank you to any that took the time to read it.

PS to Kitty - I have been selling (and "Flashing") cell phones for 6 years on Ebay and through storefronts but don't make a living from it, don't need to. So is it a hobby or a business?



Mike,

First of all, we have never had a policy against selling flashed phones here. Every phone is handled on a case by case basis. If it's a legitimate seller, with a legitimate phone that they are advertising correctly and honestly, we have neer had a problem with phones being sold here, as long as there is 100% honesty right up front about it, and the customer is FULLY aware of the situation/history with the device.

Second, RemoteSquad.com is not selling phones that are pre-flashed. They help people flash the phones they already have so that they can be used on Page Plus. Big difference. They are not here peddling flashed phones from other network, they are merely offering technical assistance & services to get phones that customers already own flashed to work on Page Plus. That's all.

Yes, you are right, there are many people here who are fully capable of flashing phones and such, but do you do it as your business, professionally, for your living, or is it just a hobby? That's the difference. Your flashing, or other people's flashing, is just as good, I'm sure, as the flashing provided by other providers. If you have a service, that you would like to offer to our customers here, please run it by me and let's talk about it, and we'll see what we can do. You have not yet, as far as I know, approached us about offering anything to the community as a whole. However, let me be very honest: I do not feel comfortable formally recommending and sending our customers to anyone who does not do it professionally, for a business, as their livelihood. Hobbies are great, but customers need guarantees & businesses that will stand behind their services & products.

I have no problem with the services that Best Buy's Geek Squad offer. Heck, I used them to come in and setup my home entertainment system. Yes, they charged a fee, but they came in, did it all, showed me how it worked, and left. And I didn't even have to break a sweat. Nor do I have any problem with the services that RemoteSquad.com offers. They provide a service, for a fee, and a guarantee behind it. And their service is much needed. There are many, many customers who do not have the technical know-how to do their own flashing, and therefore DO need assistance and guidance in getting it accomplished. We get no less than 20-30 inquiries per week from people asking about how to flash devices, etc. I have tried to flash many phones, on my own, myself, and I'm pretty darn geeky, and quite often I have failed for one reason or another. *I* personally would pay for, and use, the services of a flashing service, to save me time and aggravation.

We have not sullied our good name. We have made the business choice to stay OUT of the phone flashing market. We were approached by RemoteSquad.com, evaluated their services & products, participated in discussions with their owners and decided this would be a good thing to recommend for our customers, who look to us to find solutions for their needs (that we cannot meet.) It is mutually beneficial to us, and to them. They do not wish to get into our part of the business, and we do not wish to get into their part of the business.

You can offer phones for sale here, Mike, as you always have, as long as you are 100% honest about them, which you always have been. The phones you've sold here have been awesome! If they were NOT Verizon phones, and they were flashed to work on Page Plus, and if you are willing to personally guarantee the ones you sell, which you always have been, I have no problem with that. There has never been a flat out policy stopping the sale of "flashed devices" on our forums - it has always been a case by case basis.

I'm very sorry that you are upset. The services that RemoteSquad.com sells are valid, needed, and in much demand, we get inquiries about phone flashing all the time. They are not selling pre-flashed devices here to people. They are merely helping people flash the devices they already own, so that they can be used on Page Plus. I respect that service, know there is a need for it, and we do intend on allowing them to proceed with helping our community.

As far as I can remember, you have never approached me about offering a service to our community here, else we would have had discussions about it. If you want to propose something, and run it past me, I'd be happy to consider it. We're always looking for good ways to help our community meet their goals, if we cannot take care of it for them.

Thanks for your understanding.

Kitty

[Greg_RemoteSquad]

Thank you, Kitty, for your thoughtful response. I suppose my outrage was more because by affiliating KW with this type business, you are legitimizing AND steering your customers towards a type of business that in many cases takes advantage of people's ignorance and occasionally operate on the fringes of the law (phone cloning, esn repair, etc.). I am in no way accusing RS of anything illegal. All I am saying is, RemoteSquad is charging $35+ for "Flashing" a Sprint phone for "Talk and Text only". What this entails is installing a PagePlus PRl file on the phone and then use OTA programming to complete the setup. It takes 1 minute to install the file and Verizon's network does the rest! Most of the newer phones will install a new PRL file from the MicroSD card in the phone. All you need to do is download the PRL to the MicroSD and "Flash" your phone in the comfort of your recliner. Is it still worth $35? Only the Buyer can make that decision but they can only make the decision if given all the facts. "PHONE FLASHERS" are very good at Techno-Babble and obfuscation which hides the facts.

OK. I am through pontificating about this and will let it go :) Thank you to any that took the time to read it.

PS to Kitty - I have been selling (and "Flashing") cell phones for 6 years on Ebay and through storefronts but don't make a living from it, don't need to. So is it a hobby or a business?

Mike, it is important to note that loading the prl only does talk and text. If you want internet and picture messaging the process is much more complicated.

[tmason68]

Plus the knowledge is worth something. how long would it take the average person to figure out the prl trick?

[Micallen]

Plus the knowledge is worth something. how long would it take the average person to figure out the prl trick?
It took me and help 2 days to figure it out way back when on my first Razr.

[Kitty]

Thank you, Kitty, for your thoughtful response. I suppose my outrage was more because by affiliating KW with this type business, you are legitimizing AND steering your customers towards a type of business that in many cases takes advantage of people's ignorance and occasionally operate on the fringes of the law (phone cloning, esn repair, etc.). I am in no way accusing RS of anything illegal. All I am saying is, RemoteSquad is charging $35+ for "Flashing" a Sprint phone for "Talk and Text only". What this entails is installing a PagePlus PRl file on the phone and then use OTA programming to complete the setup. It takes 1 minute to install the file and Verizon's network does the rest! Most of the newer phones will install a new PRL file from the MicroSD card in the phone. All you need to do is download the PRL to the MicroSD and "Flash" your phone in the comfort of your recliner. Is it still worth $35? Only the Buyer can make that decision but they can only make the decision if given all the facts. "PHONE FLASHERS" are very good at Techno-Babble and obfuscation which hides the facts.

OK. I am through pontificating about this and will let it go :) Thank you to any that took the time to read it.

PS to Kitty - I have been selling (and "Flashing") cell phones for 6 years on Ebay and through storefronts but don't make a living from it, don't need to. So is it a hobby or a business?

I could go on and on about this charging for services issue. People pay their mechanics $50-$80/hour to fix their cars, instead of buy the book and do it themselves. People pay service people to do things around their house, when skills are required. Heck, people pay us to perform services, when they could wait on hold, call Page Plus, and get some of them done for free. They do it because they want the security, professional assistance, guarantee, whatever you want to call it, after the service is complete. Believe it or not, service after the sale and feeling secure is important to some people.

I suspect my car mechanic is also good at a lot of techno-babble when they convince me why a certain thing is needed, when my car was operating fine before. Or a dozen other examples. Or perhaps, just perhaps, they know something I don't, and are looking out for me to make sure my car experience in the future is a smooth one?

It was not too long ago that Kitty Wireless dabbled in flashing services - we used another remote automated online service, but we wanted to do it ourselves at the time. We charged $25-$50 for flashing, too. Perhaps you were not around when that occurred. People paid it, phones got flashed, and we helped with issues after the flash. It is just an area that we have decided to not focus in, so that we CAN focus in other services, autopay billings and other things.

Knowledge is worth something these days. I know some people disagree, but we have built our entire successful business on the knowledge and know-how we have with one product, Page Plus, and getting things done, things accomplished....

Kitty

[idamtnboy]

Plus the knowledge is worth something. how long would it take the average person to figure out the prl trick?

Reminds me of the man who called in the service man to fix his heating boiler. The tech hit the boiler with a hammer and it started working. He then wrote out a bill for $150, to which the owner responded, "How can you charge so much for just hitting the boiler with a hammer? This is robbery!" So the tech said, "OK, I'll rewrite it." When he handed it back it said, "One hammer hit on boiler - $30. Knowing where to hit - $120."

[jeffrejames]

Reminds me of the man who called in the service man to fix his heating boiler. The tech hit the boiler with a hammer and it started working. He then wrote out a bill for $150, to which the owner responded, "How can you charge so much for just hitting the boiler with a hammer? This is robbery!" So the tech said, "OK, I'll rewrite it." When he handed it back it said, "One hammer hit on boiler - $30. Knowing where to hit - $120." LOL!! Thanks for the laugh! I had a guiy come twice, once per year, in the fall because my gas furnace wouldn't start up and charge me $200. The third time I watched him and asked what the problem was. There was a "thermal coupler" that kept going out. The next time I fixed it myself for $12 and twenty minutes of my time. It is what it is!

[kidcymucks]

Are you mad that RemoteSquad makes money providing this service or that they formed a partnership with Kitty Wireless before you thought of it?

[Kitty]

I think all that needs to be said has been said in this thread, so before it turns a bit off kilter, I'm going to close this thread. Anyone who has any further concerns about this matter, please send me a PM directly.

Thanks,
Kitty